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Pakistan, India Betting on the Same Horses in Kashmir
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Posts: 2,250
Registered: Dec, 1969

Pakistan, India Betting on the Same Horses in Kashmir Posted: Sep 21, 2005 5:44 PM
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Posts: 1,168
From: USA
Registered: Aug, 2003

Re: Pakistan, India Betting on the Same Horses in Kashmir Posted: Sep 21, 2005 7:34 PM
India MUST strenghten the hands of moderates in Indian Kashmir and the hands of moderates in Pakistani Kashmir -- and the hands of Pakistani negotiators -- INDIA MUST START WITHDRAWING the Indian Army from popultation centers of Valley -- and challenge the Jihadis to disrupt the their own peril....


Posts: 204
From: India
Registered: May, 2005

Re: Pakistan, India Betting on the Same Horses in Kashmir Posted: Sep 22, 2005 12:43 AM
During the past 60 or so years India and Pakistan have carried out a number of negotiations, fought three wars and done this and that but the Kashmir problem has not moved an inch. It is obvious that India and Pakistan do not have a practical solution to Kashmir which is acceptable to all. So there is no point India and Pakistan should talk about Kashmir.

Rather, having falied in their attempts to resolve the Kashmir issue, India and Pakistan should now give a chance to Kashmiris to discuss among themselves and come out with a practical solution which is acceptable to all.

The current moves particularly leaders from PAK and IAK meeting each other appears to be in the right direction.

The best course of action shall be that India and Pakistan remove Kashmir from their agenda( leave it totally to the Kashmiris in letter and spirit) and start mending fences in other places.

Kashmir would be safe in practical, intelligent and young leaders like Mirwaiz Omar Farooq, Mehbooba Syed and also like Omar Abdullah and these young leaders should not only confine themselves to Kashmir but should also act as messengers of peace between the two hostile neighbours.

Dilber Khan

Posts: 494
From: Japan
Registered: Sep, 2004

Re: Pakistan, India Betting on the Same Horses in Kashmir Posted: Sep 22, 2005 5:00 AM
Dear San

Excellent post. This is the only just solution to ask Kashmiris what they want. But since India knows that the day she agreed to this principle, next day Kashmir will be out of her hands, she is never going to let Kashmiris decide about their fate. Telling you frankely, if Kashmiris decide to go for an independent state (or even decide to be part of India which has a probability of zero), majority of Pakistanis will accept the decision and hopefuly independent Kashmir will be very friendly state for Pakistan. Can you say the same for India and Indians? Unfortunately NO. India is ready to make a dialogue as far as going Kashmir away from India is not an option. In this situation, one doesn't need to be a PhD (please dont read it as PhD Khota) to figure out that no solution of Kashmir issue is likely in near future. Kashmiris will continue suffering and Indian army will continue their massacre. Recent strengh of other independence movements throughout India has given a new hope to Kashmiris. It is now quite clear that India will not be able to remain as a single country for very long time (rebels already occupy 55% land of India. Plz refer to Ahmed Sheikh's research), Kashmir will also get independence whith other states. Then a plebisite would be possible (as demanded by UN resolutions but in a little different form) with two options, i.e, join Pakistan or stay independent.


Posts: 204
From: India
Registered: May, 2005

Re: Pakistan, India Betting on the Same Horses in Kashmir Posted: Sep 22, 2005 7:10 AM
Post No.4-Mr.Dilbar

I may be wrong but the most sane voice I have heard so far about Kashmir is recently from Sardar Qayoom of PAK who is in Delhi these days. As a Pakistani ,you may not like his statements but he has ruled out an Independent Kashmir as "mental luxury". I am unable to link his statements just now, but you can find them in some of the news websites. He has advised Indian Government to work on giving autonomy to IAK atleast to the extent Pakistan has given to PAK. To be very ,very frank, the solution of Kashmir can only be some kind of autonomous region. To see the dream of Independent Kashmir coming true, you have to wait till India goes bust.

If some propagandists believe that India is on the verge of collapse or sooner than later is going to be taken over by marauders ,well, I can wish them good luck.

In the present days, the stakes of the world and particularly the US in India are so high that the rich & powerful would go to any extent to prevent the collapse of India. As they have done in the past, they would simply turn a blind-eye towards how India maintains its integrity.


Posts: 41
From: sakhiabab
Registered: Jul, 2005

Re: Pakistan, India Betting on the Same Horses in Kashmir Posted: Sep 24, 2005 5:53 PM
Like General Musharraf the Politicians of Kashmeer are getting wise and wise every day. They all know ,

- General Musharraf is not interested in Pakistan or in
Kashmeer or in Baluchistan or NWFP . General Musharraf
is interested in the continuity of his own Presidential
Office for which the Existance and Continuity of
Kashmeer issue is very important.

The solution of Kashmeer is important to and for the
people of Kashmerer only , Nopt for General Musharraf .

The solution of kashmeer is the End of Political Power
both as President and Army Chief of Staff for General
Musharraf .

On other side WTO , Globalisation and SAARC are
pushing for certain progress which indirectly will
influence the Kashmerer issuue .

The question is , how long General Musharraf & his Top
Generals would keep on opposing and delaying this
indirect influence ?

Sarmad Khan

Posts: 55
From: Toronto
Registered: Jul, 2005

Re: Pakistan, India Betting on the Same Horses in Kashmir Posted: Sep 25, 2005 2:23 AM
But these horses are the Kashmiri ones. who have sacrificed lacs of their loved ones. Their crossed genetics have enabled them to sustain any amount of Load and pressure.

I am sure that these horses will make their own ways without any supervisor, as the hybrid horses work in the animal units of India and Pakistan.

They will surely try to reach their own defined destination.

ahmed sheikh

Posts: 823
From: Washington DC 20045,District Of Columbia,US
Registered: Aug, 2002

Re: Pakistan, India Betting on the Same Horses in Kashmir Posted: Sep 25, 2005 7:11 AM
South Asia Tribune

The Indo/Pakistan 'peace process' is insincere and is a farce. It is going to go no where. Nobody is betting on any 'horse'. In the ultimate analysis the Kashmirs are going to exercise their right of self-determination. Peacefully, if they can, a la East Timor. See my posting No. 81 and 75 on another SAT forum at: > <

Ahmed Sheikh
Washington DC
Tel: 202-637-9212

gulzar khan

Posts: 28
Registered: Nov, 2003

Re: Pakistan, India Betting on the Same Horses in Kashmir Posted: Sep 26, 2005 11:23 PM
The history of Kashmir freedom struggle is replete with many twists and turns. The leaders of Kashmir freedom struggle have also changed stances to gain favours or after having lost hope in their cause. The present ongoing so called peace process for resolution of Kashmir movement is , to my mind artificial and not based on dynamics of real politics and the essence of Kashmir issue. so far in the process , India s the only gainer and beneficiary. Pakistan and kashmiris despite giving in so much and even after bending too low have gained absolutely nothing.
Pakistan without Kashmir will turn into a desolate wasteland. This must be understood by every Pakistani. And Kashmir without Pakistan , if at all given freedom or autonomy may gain the statius enjoyed by Nepal or Bhutan. WWe have waited 58 years. Can't we wait more? May allah create conditions where the Kashmiris will be able to snatch freedom from Indian clutches and cast their lot with pakistan.
Let us not talk of seven regions of Kashmir . It is not sweetmeats which are to be distributed/ sold according to their variety. The only option which can be discussed is two nation theory. The Hindu majority areas go to India and Muslim majority areas to Pakistan. Let us not get beffoled by cunning and clever leaders who have been playing with the fate of Kashmiris for the last 58 years. These chameleons are to be exposed and Kashmiris freedom struggle must remain in the hands of those who have shed blood and are shedding blood


Posts: 204
From: India
Registered: May, 2005

Re: Pakistan, India Betting on the Same Horses in Kashmir Posted: Sep 28, 2005 1:49 AM
Response to Post No.8-

The present peace process involving Kashmiris of both sides is a step in the right direction. Without involving Kashmiris ,it will lead to nowhere. It is absolutely certain that if the issue is left only to Kashmiris without any meddling from Pakistan, the pragmatic Kashmiris will find some solution acceptable to them and India.

Pakistan knows this too well and therefore keeps on poking its nose in the Kashmir affairs. It knows very well that if Kashmiris are given a chance, they will dump Pakistan without battling an eyelid and make some kind of arragement with India. Kashmiris know very well that Pakistan has nothing to give its own people what will give it to Kashmiris??

Therefore, to resolve the Kashmir issue, the international community must make Pakistan realise the size of its boots, make it get out of Kashmir issue and let Kashmiris sit with secular and progressive Indians to find an amicable solution where Kashmiris get a recognition of their Kashmiriyat.

As far as Pakistan is concerned, let it become from the "Land of the Pure" to the "Land of Nowhere". Amin.

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